Re: Is this list still alive?

[Erik <br0ke@math.smsu.edu>]

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:18:21 Steve Baker wrote:
> Jan Ekholm wrote:
> 
> > Or is it a sad fact that individuals are not able to create games
> anymore
> > that meet today's standards?
> 
> That's certainly true.
> 

I think the programmers are up to snuff for creating 'commercial quality'
games, but I think we're lacking on the artist front. This has been discussed
before :)

> > Especially not for Linux?
> 
> No - I don't think Linux makes games writing any harder.  It's arguable
> that it doesn't make it any easier either...but I'm not so sure about
> that.
> 

<snip>

> 
> Actually, looking at HappyPenguin, I'd say there were more cases of
> people
> aiming too low than aiming too high.  So many authors produce something
> perfectly competent and generally bug-free - but just too outdated to be
> interesting.  That's why there are 42 versions of Tetris and 14 of
> Bomberman.
> 

yeah, tetris is the 'hello world' of games, it's a good thing people are writing
tetris clones. :)

> Also, I think we are working too much as individuals - teams of 4 or 5
> people
> would work better.
> 
> > Is gaming on Linux dying before it even started?
> 
> I'm concerned that people are NOT buying Loki games in the volumes you'd
> expect.  I very much doubt that this is because OpenSource game are so
> good.
> 

I thought I read that loki continued growing when all the other linux companies
took damage from the ".com" crash? They aren't outselling old mega-publishers
yet, but I'd imagine they're selling enough to warrent growth and growing to meet
demand which is growing with them? Be interesting to see an article from someone
at loki describing how they're fairing :)

<snip>

> > I hope it will become truly great one day, but the most important thing
> is
> > to get something simple out of the door and then later focus on making
> it
> > better. But I don't ever think we'll see truly great and innovative
> games
> > on Linux, merely ports of old games.
> 
> My *hope* is that OpenSource programmers - being free of the constraints
> of Publishers and the demands of Retailers - will be able to innovate
> whole
> new genres of game that the commercial guys don't have the nerve to risk.
> 
> My *expectation* is that we'll be up to 100 versions of Tetris by the end
> of
> this year.  :-(
> 

Game programming is a pretty difficult corner of development. It has to pull
a lot of different aspects together in just the right way, and if you don't have
some experience making games, you're gonna have a huge uphill battle. I think
the massive count of remade classics is the developers understanding what they're
getting themselves into with game development and using the classic as a set
formulatic goal so they can concentrate on the game implementation side instead
of having the gameplay/design dumped on them at the same time and being
overwhelmed. It's game developer training. I'll admit, I have a tetris clone almost
finished (I switched my workstation to fbsd which has a serious support issue for
3d hardware, so that project is on a back burner). I'm writing it so I can get some
practical experience gluing sound, input, graphics, game logic, collision detection,
and all the other parts together. I don't expect it to be a hit, it's me practicing. If
someone does download it, I expect them to go "oh, that's nice" and delete it. But
it'll mean I understand how the pieces fit together, and will have the satisfaction
of creating a finished product. I'd personally rather see new game developers write
another tetris and go on to create original games than to see new game developers
give up half way through their first project. :) glDisable(GL_RANT);

<snip>

> > Discussions? Or are we dead and buried?
> 
> Well, I *enjoy* writing games - and I'm certainly not going over to
> Windoze -
> so I won't ever stop doing this.
> 
> I think that more of us need to join in with existing games development
> efforts
> rather than starting new projects.
> 
> Games like TuxRacer, TORCS, Pinngus etc are *close* to being good games -
> but their
> authors tend to run out of steam sometime before they get finished.  (I'm
> as
> guilty of that as everyone else).  Perhaps an infusion of new blood would
> help get these games over that final hump.
> 
> Projects like FlightGear that have reached a 'critical mass' of
> developers
> are coming along nicely and are self-perpetuating.
> 

I thought tuxracer had released a "finished" version? I'd like to see pingus in an
end-user state :) I either need to modify a bootloader for this system or get a new
videocard or mb (the floppy controller is shot and the bios doesn't see my hdd
correctly, so lilo and grub get confused and I can't upgrade the bios)

I'm up for discussion on anything to do with linux games, but I think most of us
are fairly tired of discussing the same old stuff over and over and not making 
much progress at A-grade games without A-grade artists. 

<snip>

        -Erik <erik@smluc.org> [http://math.smsu.edu/~br0ke]

The opinions expressed by me are not necessarily opinions. In all
probability, they are random rambling, and to be ignored. Failure to ignore
may result in severe boredom or confusion. Shake well before opening. Keep
Refrigerated.

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