Re: SEUL: Article by Alan Cox

[Micah Yoder <LYoder@cyberis.net>]

cuplan@grove.ufl.edu wrote:

> it DOESN'T tell me what it's doing, where the files it's installing are

rpm -qpl filename.rpm

Yes, that capability should be put into the X front end if it's not
there already.

> going, etc., etc.  RPM a file.  Now go over and do a Windows install.  I'd
> almost rather do the Windows install.  At least it gives me better
> feedback.

Whoaaah!!!!  'Doze installs are my definition of a mess!  They put all
their DLLs in the system directory, and 'Doze doesn't have a centralized
method of removing software - you have to hope the app developer made an
uninstall script.  Yes, they do tell you what files are being copied,
but as I mentioned above, RPM can do it too.  Also, on a Linux system,
you usually have only a few binary directories, all of which are in your
PATH.  RPM know which files are its.  'Doze programs make their own
directories, making it hard to execute things from the command line
without a long path.  And then there's the registry.  Talk about a truly
hideous idea.  :-)

Yes, RPM lumps all programs into one directory structure, but as long as
it keeps track of what is what (and it does), I don't see that as a
problem.

> Also, if you config/make/make install a lib, RPM won't recognize it, so
> RPM is only really useful when you do nothing but install RPMs.

The only problem is doing make/make install on shared libraries that an
RPM may depend on.  That occurs fairly rarely.  Generally, an app will
depend on a lib that is either in the system with an RPM file or is
included in its own source code and is built with the program.

> End-users aren't going to configure/make/make install?  Care to just lock
> up the LSM and most Linux software and tell end-users they can't use it?

That's what Independence, SEUL, and other groups exist for: Producing
easy to install packages of end user software for people!

Sure, the capability to configure/make/make install is still there - no
one's taking it away.  I use it a lot myself.  But for true end users,
that's just not a good way to do it.

> available in RPM, but I don't think it was.  What do you intend to do for
> all the things NOT available as RPM files?

Put them in RPM files.  :-)

> RPM causes problems becauase it acts like it's "above" the system...just
> installing whatever wherever with little user feedback.  Does RPM update
> files that need to know what it installs?  Does it check anything but its
> little registry for critical files?  I don't think it does.

I dunno.  But I'm also not sure it's a major problem.

I also like RPM's speed.  ***MUCH*** faster than the fastest 'Doze
install I've done.

> What if you didn't have a working chat script and didn't know how to write
> one?  Wouldn't you want one?

Absolutely.  End users shouldn't have to write chat scripts.  I just
gave up trying them because I didn't need to.

> :) :) Good to know someone out there approves.  It's actually nearly done.
> I just don't know enough about IPC to get the concurrently running
> civserver and the GTK control panel I made to talk to each other.  I'd
> prefer to do this without altering the civserver's code.

I've only played FreeCiv once or twice.  It seemed cool, but I guess I
need more of a tutorial to learn it...

I like business simulations myself...I'm currently writing the airline
equivelent of Railroad Tycoon...