Re: SEUL: Linux command-line focus

[Roger Dingledine <arma@mit.edu>]

Sorry for the delay in response; I've been mostly ignoring this
thread lately.

I notice you haven't subbed to seul-pub, Joe. You might consider
skimming the archives at www.seul.org/archives/seul/pub, or
subscribing.
 
> I have been working almost exclusively from the unix command line 
> for about 15 years as I find it much faster and vastly more efficient 
> than any gui-windows-type interface.  As I am now migrating into 
> Linux, I find that much is the same, or nearly so, but there are 
> numerous variances, also.  So, I would like to be able to interface 
> with others who might have a similar interest in further developing 
> capabilities based on primarily command-line based operations. 
> 
> For example, I recently built a new system with a cd-rw and spent 
> several weeks (actually almost three months) trying to figure out 
> how to burn a cd-rom from a command-line command, rather than having 
> to use a gui-interface.  Some people told me it couldn't be done, 
> some told me the gui-windows interfaces were faster and "better," 
> and many gave me conflicting advice on how to do it.  Once I finally 
> solved it, it turned out to be a single line of syntax about 40-
> characters long which I put in a script called 'makecdr' and now 
> I can make a complete backup of my entire system in about 20-minutes 
> by typing that command without having to gobble up 200+ megabyte 
> of hd space and about 50-meg of ram with a space/memory wasting 
> gui interface. 
> 
> This is just one example.  I find that I can do almost anything 
> from the command-line about 10-times faster than a similar task 
> can be done via a gui-windows-type interface. 

I agree that command-line is very useful (I'm stuck in a CLI for
the summer, or at least until I get X working on this damn laptop) --
and screen(1) is a true lifesaver. And as I see it, there are two
aspects to approach here:

1) Making command-line more powerful, and informing people of this
   new power
2) Advocating command-line to new users, writing documentation
   instructing them how to deal with basic command-line ideas, and
   where to go for more info.

I think #1 is a very useful thing to do, but it isn't very end-user
related. I'd be happy to host such a site as part of the seul
pages, but I'm not going to bill it as a 'seul site' (not that that
probably matters to anybody :)
#2 is also a very useful endeavor, and is much more end-user-oriented.
If your site were to tackle both #1 and #2, then it could easily fit
under the seul umbrella.

But anyway, it sounds like there are a variety of possible paths
to take for this idea. Which one you take depends entirely on who's
going to do the work. I think the people who want to do the work
should make a short plan about which direction they're going to
take, and then start going in that direction and see what happens. :)
Overplanning this project will kill it.

If you give me html, I will post it. Alternatively, I can give you
an account on cran, and you can post it directly on the seul site
via the cvs interface Pete mentioned (ignore him when he mentions
sdoc, though. I do my best to ignore that these days, even tho it
has its uses. :)
Alternatively again, I can give you a seul subdomain (for example,
www.cli.seul.org), and then you don't have to worry about cvs, you
just show up and plop down your html files. I can also do mailing
lists, etc, as you indicate.
 
> It is a mystery to me that most people seem to lean toward the gui-
> interface for Linux. 
 
It is commonly accepted that a graphical interface is more easy to
make intuitive for new users. You're going to have to come up with
some really compelling arguments to convince people otherwise. :)

But I do agree that after they've become familiar with the system,
CLI's generally allow people to get work done faster. Depending, of
course, on what work they're trying to do.

Thanks,
--Roger