Re: SEUL: The Cathedral and the bazar

[Kai Wetzel <k.wetzel@welfen-netz.com>]

Erik Walthinsen wrote:
> > The problem with SEUL is than it is adopting the Cathedral model
[...]
> I disagree.  My goal has, and always will be, to guide the project enough to
> get things done.  I do not want to control everything, as I know that Linux
> and associated projects develop best when minds run free.
> 
> However, I have thought long and hard about this project, and I do not feel
> that we can adopt a 100% Bazaar structure.

I agree.  These things are important to keep in mind, though, and
the bazaar model article has opened the eyes of quite a lot
of people I think.

> The scope of the project is
> simply too large to jump in without planning at least the general structure
> and goals of the project.  We have a specific goal: to create a distribution
> for end-users.
[...]

> > What is needed is the bazar aproach like in Linux kernel: start
> > humble, frequent releases, enthousiasm.  So let's see how to do it.
> 
> > Pick an RH5: it is not a bad starting point.
> I'm leaning towards 4.2 at least check, but things may be better now that the
> errata is longer.  We could start with 5.0 (it does have many advantages) and
> keep in sync with them a little longer, say through 5.1, just to gain some of
> the stability that 5.1 is almost guaranteed to have over 5.0.

I like this approach.

> > Add a couple of packages you think they are missing and remove another
> > couple thab you think they are redundant or useless for our purpose.
> Such as adding in the chosen toolkit, apps, etc.
> 
> > No system is difficult if you can get help.  Include Wowen Goods in it
> > (a good doc can make a difficult system, easy), find speaking German to
> > translate the Introductory Kurs in Caldera Lite.

Is this available on-line ?

[...]
> > This the way for making progress, not by tring to be perfect from the
> > start.

> I *know* we cannot be perfect from the start.  Our goal is to be "perfect"
> when we're done.  But as I have tried to impress upon everyone, this cannot
> be accomplished without at least some purpose, goals, planning, direction,
> and leadership.

Yes, maybe some hands-on suggestions about what the sub-groups
need to do and/or could do now or in the very near future would
be good.

Some ideas:

apps:
- Fill out Star's End's app list
   - Compile a list of features for app categories to ease comparison
   - Compile a set of questions app-reviews should answer in order to
     be of max. use to the SEUL team and SEUL users later on.
     (this can be done progressively as we move on)
   - Review apps, pick some hot canditates, and see what's needed to
     integrate them more tightly (not in the near future)

apps/gui:
- Window Managers:
    - Auto-configuration of WM menu, etc.
    - What WMs are top-candiates, what other WMs should be
      included as alternatives if any (Continue the earlier
      discussion in a more concrete way)

distrib/install:
- get a basic distrib from RedHat
- make a list of things which are uncomfortable about
  existing installations/distributions.
- Check out in what ways installation must be improved,
  possibly think about early GUI installation.

help:
- continue work on the help system.

What else can we do right now ?

kai