Re: Flame

[arma@seul.org]

In message <34CABE31.6C02AC2B@siservices.net>, rickya@siservices.net writes:
>The foundation is Debian.  Go to  ftp.debian.org and you'll find
>everything that Geroge is moving to his machine.  Why, I don't know.
>
>I'm the UI project leader.  I'd say I'm working.

The main problem here is that the sysarchs are still trying to finalize
the task division documents, and there simply aren't enough of us. It
looks like Luka is coming back into the loop finally, which means that
hopefully we'll have somebody else 'at the top' to help out. We need
more people like Omega, Luka, and me. But they're difficult to find.

>I beleive another guy refered to it as him shoving Debian down our
>throats.  Or did you miss that one to?

Actually, it was the fact that Eric Troan told me, when I tried to
announce SEUL on redhat-announce (paraphrased) "Sorry, that's for another
distribution. It's not appropriate material for us." Whereas Debian said
"Hey cool, can we help?"

I had been leaning towards using Redhat. But Debian is the choice,
both by default and by functionality. I don't want to get too caught up
in the Debian distribution, though. We just happen to be using them
because they're useful. SEUL is *not* an offshoot of Debian, even though
we are working very closely with them.

>So whatever someone wants to work on, it's right there.  So why don't
>you tell me, if nobody is talking about what SEUL is going to be on the
>list.  How do any of you know what you're trying to acomplish?  How do
>the non-leaders in the lists know *what* they can do?  Or should we just
>all work on whatever we want and submit it, even though 10 other people
>might have done the same thing.
>
>Explain that.  There's very little communication at all.  There are 0
>(zero) outlines posted so anybody can pick a project and start to work. 
>I'm trying to get the distro leader to post some such thing and you are
>telling me he's too busy copying an FTP archive, or it's not realistic
>to do that, or that's how vaporware is born.

There is an outline of every group sitting in
http://web.mit.edu/arma/Public/seul-tasks.

** Please read it and send me comments in personal mail. **

Once we have the webpage up and functional (btw, each group should start
preparing information to go on their section of the webpage, as described
in the seul-pub section of seul-tasks), I hope things will get much more
organized.

>This is really getting pathetic.  We are talking about creating a "Linux
>core standard" and a distro that can compete with Win95 but there isn't
>enough organization here to coordinate a game of cards.

The SEUL leaders are way overloaded with all the tasks we've taken. We
need more competent people "at the top", but they're tough to find.

Flaming will not help, Rick. I asked George to lead the seul-dev-distrib
group. He likes Debian, he's decided that we'll start from a Debian
distribution, and he's picked one. When he's done setting it up he
wants to call it SEUL 0.1. While I am hesitant at actually assigning
it a SEUL version number, that's a very irrelevant detail. He can call
it whatever he wants. I do not intend to announce it to the world as
"the first version of SEUL". And he knows that.

>Correct me if I'm wrong but I am on the leaders list, and have been
>given the task of putting together the UI.  Yet I have no place to put
>anything, nobody on the list.  People sending UI stuff to the distro
>list lead by somebody that doesn't want to talk about his area let alone
>my area.

Within the next few days, we intend to have the CVS repository on cran
set up enough that everybody can use it. We're trying to work on
everything at once, and I think it will all come together (functional
CVS, functional website, functional task-division document, etc) within
the next week. Please bear with us.

>Were these lists shutdown and some new ones started or something?  I
>have seen nobody talking with nobody about nothing yet this guy
>indicates that theres tons of work going on and he knows all about it. 
>Excuse me!  Is that in some private club that a so called "leader" isn't
>privy to?

Actually, yes. Omega and I talk very frequently on the IRC channel,
#seul at cvs.seul.org on port 7776, tho for now we'd prefer to not
have the place flooded, while we try to work out more project details.
Also, personal mail among the sysarchs (currently me and omega) is not
unheard of.

--Roger

===
SEUL-Leaders list, seul-leaders-request@seul.org
===