RE: Install Critique

[Rick <rickya@siservices.net>]

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On 11-Feb-98 George Bonser wrote:
- -> 
- -> I will be going through a fresh install tomarrow so I will have more to
- -> report.  I will probably not report the kinds of troubles that other have
- -> only because I tend to be somewhat "anal" when it comes to installing a
- -> new OS whereas people from the DOS/WIN community usually try to figure it
- -> on the fly, I tend to read all of the instructions that I can find before
- -> I start.

I explained this to you "privately" yet the concept still evades you, or you
are just ignoring it.  You see RTFM and RTFRM as a prerquesite to using *nix and
find fault with DOS/Windows users for not doing this.  I would agree that it is
the best course to take but it isn't the way of the computer world any more.

Why do you suppose they invented plug-n-play?  Why do you suppose systems come
with the software pre-installed?  Why do you suppose Debian has dselect, dpkg,
dpkg-ftp, and make-kpkg?  Why do you suppose M$ has such a huge clientel?

Do the words ease of use come to mind at all?  How about intuitive?

Have you ever installed a DOS/Windows program?  Even in the old Win2x DOS3x
days the installation process was normally printed on the label of the first
disk, it's hard to remember, are you ready?

        To install place disk 1 (install disk) in floppy drive and type
        a:\install

Now in Windows 95 you put a CDROM in and it has autorun which does it for you. 
Or you do install new software and it searches your CDROM's and flopies for the
install/setup file and prompts you to run it.

Hmmm?  Does this mean that those people are stupid for not RTFM or RTFRM? 
Could this mean that they are used to a "user-friendly" approach to installing
software?  Is this a devious plot by M$ to increase the computer illiteracy of
the public so they can't use other OS's that believe they should RTFM or RTFRM
for an hour or more before installing their new software?

This has nothing to do with them trying to "figure it on the fly".  It was an
intelligent choice to make it easy enough for a child to do so that PC use
became wide-spread instead of remaining a black-art that only those weird guys
in the corener cubical practiced.

- -> I have also had a lot more experiance with unix and variants than I have
- -> with DOS/Win and OS/2.

I have also had more experience with unix variants than with DOS/Windows and
OS/2.  It doesn't mean I'm incapable of thinking in simple end-user terms,
wether it be a *nix end-user or DOS/Windows end-user.

My first working experience with computers was on a Perkin/Elmer mini-computer
running OS/32, a Unix variant, over 10 years ago.  I didn't even look at DOS or
Windows for about 2 years after that.  I worked on that system and Sun
workstations for 6 years.  During that time I learned DOS3x and Window2x and
up.  Then I found Linux in 94 and began using it.

I still have the ability to critique my distro of choice and Linux in general,
as well as seeing the positives that other OS's have that Linux doesn't.  If I
didn't have the ability to see these things I could never hope to do anything
constructive towards making Linux user-friendly enough for those not so versed
in computers to use, since in my eyes Linux and my distro of choice are already
the best and only need some minor tweeking to make *me* happy.

If I'm able to point at my distro of choice and Linux and say "that is just
completely wrong.  It needs to be easy enough that my mother could do it". 
Then I'm ahead of the game.  I can weed out those problems right off the bat. 
And that doen't mean making it good enough for *my* tasts.  It means making it
idiot proof.

Getting SEUL to the point that they don't have to RTFM or RTFRM should be a
high priority goal.

I can build a car from the ground up.  That doesn't mean that I think other
people are morons because they have to buy them put together.  And I sure as
hell wouldn't start a dealership selling cars that they have to assemble
themselves.

If you were going to buy your kid a bike for his birthday would you get the one
you have to assemble as you read the instructions, or the one pre-assembled you
can just give him/her?

- -> My frustration with Debian was with dselect.  After enough times in the
- -> conflict screen, I learned how to avoid surprises with a few tricks like
- -> selecting all packages "hold" status after I have it installed, not
- -> selecting a bunch of things the first run through dselect, etc.

Are you suggesting we write these little gems down in a README file for our
users?


I'm not even going to answer the rest, it's just more of the same.

What kind of critique is this?  Looks to me like you are critiquing other
distro's and glasing over the Debian problems followed by your "quick and easy"
solutions to those problems.

The idea behind this critique thread was to have us all begin to think in a
nutral manor, instead of being blinded by our own preferences.  The reason we
have so many distro's that seem to cater to a specific technical group is
because of this kind of blindness.

It's like hearing a Winblows fanatic proclaim the superiority of Winblows as his
system reboots from another crash and him saying "I found a setting in
the register that keeps it from crashing so much.  It only crashes once a
month now".

Or a die-hard Patriots fan proclaiming "they've just been taking it easy for
the last 10 seasons.  They're still the best team in the league."


- ---
Rick Jones
rickya@siservices.net
Ah, but a man's grasp should exceed his reach, 
Or what's a heaven for ?
                -- Robert Browning, "Andrea del Sarto"



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