Re: [seul-edu] New-and-different approach to OSS in Education

[Leon Brooks <leon@brooks.fdns.net>]

On Sunday 26 May 2002 22:07, Manuel Gutierrez Algaba wrote:
> El Dom 26 May 2002 03:53, escribió:
>>  * The ability to have software, artwork and systems designed by people
>>    who share significant context with the intended audience is priceless.

> I can't understand this one.

Users and authors are close, possibly the same person.

>>  * The ability of a school to generate their own real, useable software
>>    as part of the curriculum is a real, hard saving that will delight
>>    even the most unsympathetic cost accountant.

> Children high-tech slavery ???

No, children in tight feedback loop.

> Teachers busy ?

Teachers have to be there to answer questions and guide in some degree.

> Cost saving for what ?

Not my problem, school decides.

> new weaponry ?

In a military academy, perhaps.

> >  * The ability of a school to gain world reknown by publishing something
> >    useful to all schools is unthinkably `cool' compared to the current
> >    situation.

> Can you seriously promise a class of 25 youngster that 3 of them will gain
> world recognisement ? No, you can't.

You can't _promise_ that to sports champions either. You can only promise them 
a shot at it. And `world reknown' doesn't mean handing out Olympic medals, 
being written into a Homer Simpson script, or getting a knighthood. It means 
participating in and earning some recognition within the global computer 
community.

> Is reasonable to do such a big effort ?

What big effort? Did Linus Torvalds really aim for World Domination when he 
uploaded a tar-gz to an FTP server? Features like this are side-effects, they 
fall out of the process without any special effort.

> Is the right thing to do with a teenager ?

My idea of `world reknown' is.

> No, personal betterment, slow, steady, secure is what must be done at
> that age.

That too.

>>  * The impact on students of knowing that they can influence the systems
>>    they use, rather than being a passive traveller through the process
>>    is profound.
>
> Being productive is nice,... washing the car is simpler. Modify the systems
> the use ? Yes, it's cool.  It may be interesting for "passive travellers",
> ... just find them.

No, that's not what I'm talking about. Unfortunately, I didn't plan on this 
document being interlingual or I would have been mroe careful in my choice of 
words.

Ordinary students, knowing that someone in their school or district, or at 
least country understands the software that they are using, and will respond 
to an email suggesting a change, will more often make the effort to send that 
email. Oh, yes, and that person or group probably speaks their version of 
Spanish, Latvian, Chinese or whatever as well.

>>  * The ability to direct the energies of at least some students into
>>    creative and worthwhile work instead of makework, fiction and
>>    pointless exercises should have a directly measurable effect on
>>    overall morale.

> If they like fiction and
> imagination, redirect such energies into game programming, or programms
> with a high profile of "knowledge" and "information" and a low profile of
> technicalities (and other syntactic rubish) .

Here we are in agreement.

>>  * The lesson in sharing, making the whole pie bigger rather than working
>>    to enlarge your slice - at least in principle at the expense of
>>    others - is one not yet wholeheartedly taught and difficult to find a
>>    more widely applicable means of expression for. This should be
>>    singularly attractive to parochial schools.

> This is true, GPL programming would have been a communist dream, pity that
> communist died in 1991,...hmmm, wait..... Linux 1991...
> is Linux the reincarnation of communism in the age of information area ?

World Domination, remember? (-:

> Will linuxer be hunted by "patriot" microsofters ?

Ship Fidel to Redmond, end of problem.

>>  * The enormous range of already-working examples of software to start
>>    from will suit all temperaments and preferences, and can in principle
>>    be used with any student developed enough to understand the processes
>>    involved.

> Well, my opinion is that programming-like people is by itself a temperament
> and the rest of temperaments are not suited for programming.

So they also get a shot at artwork, scripting, help texts, testing, whatever 
rings their bell. Even with this range, software is not for everyone, but it 
will help some people. Helping some people is better than helping none, yes?

>>  * Through becoming involved in feedback, students can become useful
>>    contributors from Grade 1.

> Again, children slavery ?

No, children knowing that their opinion is valuable and has an impact.

> Let's the children be children.

Why are they in school, then?

>>  * Through contact with students in other places and cultures in the
>>    natural course of collaboration, much real-life social studies will
>>    happen en passant (although I foresee difficulty in grading this;
>>    perhaps an RPL*-like process is appropriate).

> That can be achieved without programming.

True, and also it is very much a side issue. But it is still there.

>>  * Skills potentially required in the natural course of designing,
>>    building or modifying a software system include mathematics, logic,
>>    art, language, dexterity/motor-skills, typing, spatials, negotiation,
>>    scheduling, note-taking, trialling/scientific-method, name it.

> hahaha, dexterity/motor-skills ??? do you mean TYPING ?

And mousing, joystick use, trackballing etc. All hand-eye coordination.

> hahaha language ? do you mean: "this is kOOL 4 y ? lmo ,lfao, ..." ?

No. But listen in the playground and you will hear other shorthand and 
distortions, computers or not.

>>  * What can you see that I've missed...?

> Yes,... all ?

Oh, very helpful.

Cheers; Leon