Re: Educational texts - written language teaching

[Fredrik Liljegren <eof@hem.utfors.se>]

> First, stylistically I think it comes off a bit condescending, or 
> maybe like it's trying to convince too much.  By the time the 
> teacher/parent/other person read this, they will be looking for ways 
> to use computers.  You can be a bit more direct.  Taking out all the 
> rhetorical questions would probably go a long ways to fix this 
> problem.

Yes, that's a good point.  I guess I'm too much into trying to
convince the world that I put it everywhere I can :-)


>> with the keyboard. I don't think this section requires any method,
>> just let them use the program if they like it, else, don't! 
> 
> Then what do you do with the ones who don't want to do it?  
> Making those options explicit would be a good idea.  I guess it 
> depends on what kind of environment you're in: if kids just go over 
> to the computer when they want to, or if they "do" computers all 
> together.

If they all sit by the computers at the same time, then you're right
in that there should be alternatives.  I just don't think that's a
good idea, at least not in those ages.


> If there are other programs that *should* exist (but don't) to 
> supplement Lletters or be alternatives, then maybe put out 
> suggestions.

The alternatives for learning letters I think is a more reading
approach.  If this would be done with computers, there could be a
program with a speach-interface.  I've been thinking of something
that would read out a text while in some way highlighting or pointing
at the words being read.
  A follow-up for this would be a language-training program.  I've
seen a program under windows that I thought had some good aspects
(and a few things that I wouldn't do that way).  I don't remember
what it was called, but at an early stage, the kids got a picture,
for examle an 'ant'.  The letters in the word were spread over the
window, and by drag'n'drop they would place them in the right order...

I think this should be done in a slightly different way.  I've
written some about it on edufs (link at the end), but I'll elaborate
the earliest part here.  I think that one should start by working
with short sentences, but it has to be meaningful and funny
sentences, maybe in connection to a saga or a story of any kind.  To
it there would be a picture, and it would be read out.  The user
should be able to hear it again.  At first then, they shall place the
words in the right order.  A simple sentence won't have to be just
two words, it can be five, if the words are of different length, the
first vord has a capitalized letter and the last has the punctuation
mark on it.  So they will for example order: 'The', 'ant', 'climbs',
'up', 'a' and 'tree.'.  That way the program will be like a game
(you'te trying to achieve something that the program has to accept),
while it still is based on meaningful reading.  The kids will learn
to recognise words, common sounds connected to letters and so on.  I
don't know what the method is called in english, but in sweden we
call it (directly translated) 'reading on the base of speach'.
  The tasks should be done by teachers and other students.  They
could be done in a class.  If they agree on a sentence and together
produce a picture and someone records the speach, or if everyone in
the class can make his own sentence, picture and recording.  It would
have to have a good interface for making new tasks..


>> 2.2 Help them focus!
> 
> Is it easier to use a computer to write than to write by hand?  I'm 
> not sure it is now, though I think it could be made so.

Yes, I'm aware of the problem with finding the letters.


> The biggest problem I see with a young person writing on a 
> computer is mostly the keyboard.  They start out spending a lot of 
> time searching for letters.  This letter-by-letter approach makes 
> writing very difficult because the letters are by themselves 

Much of this exists for children writing by hand too.  In that early
stage I'm aiming at, there are problems forming letters, and not
knowing all letters yet by form and sound.


> One way I've thought about to help this would be to alphabetize the 
> keyboard.  I don't know how to do the labeling -- stickers?  

Well, that's an idea.  As you say, it can make it harder to learn
normal writing later.  A dust-cover is otherwise a good idea,
stickers wouldn't be good, it has to be removable.


> Anyway, that's just one idea that comes to mind.  I can imagine 
> there might be others (abbreviation?).  If there isn't a way to deal 
> with this problem then the notion that composition by computer is 
> easier might be suspect.

There could be some kind of software interface for getting the
letters.  A program with a simple degree of voice-recognition for
just signle letters.  Or maybe it should be the aim of a different
program, connecting the letters with their place on the keyboard. 
Maybe it could be added to lletters..


>> Introducing computers to a 6- or 7-years old kid is quite easy. You
>> can easily guide her/him to login visually by selecting the right
>> picture in the kdm (KDE's graphical login-manager) and clicking ok.
>> Presented by the desktop, configured so that there's nothing but an
>> icon for starting KLyX with their practice-document in it. So, with
>> 3 clicks on the mouse, they are in a position to start writing, from
>> the environment presented by a just booted computer (or a computer
>> with a previous logged off session).
> 
> I think this stuff would deserve a document of its own, perhaps with 
> a set of higher-level documents that put these ideas together 
> (overviews).  There's a lot of technical stuff that has to be done 
> once -- so it shouldn't clutter a more general document -- but has 
> to be done at some time, so it should be thorough.  Like, perhaps, 
> how to set up KLyX to use larger letters on startup.

Do you mean that the exact method should get a section of it's own,
or just how to set up the environment? The later I plan to have
separate, aimed to the person setting up the system, but maybe the
methods of how to use it could be simple, short examples in the text
and more elaborated in an appendix?


>> * select a user (and click 'ok')
>> 
>> * click the documents icon (and write!) 
>> 
>> * click save 
>> 
>> * close the window 
>> 
>> * quit X-windows. (including 'ok')
> 
> I think you're right to generally downplay the technical part.  It 
> really isn't very difficult and the teacher shouldn't spend much time 
> worrying about it or making the kids worry about it.  Of course, this 
> means the setup should be solid enough that other problems don't 
> come up, i.e., no crashing, spontaneous error messages, etc.  
> Generally Linux does well at this, though, so it's not too big a deal.

That's right.  And bug-fixing programs that we plan to use in
'advertising' GNU/Linux to the schools is a big part in making a good
educational environment.  I realized that as I began using AbiWord..
(and at the same time, I learned GDB :-))


> processing fluff) one of the kids thought that things got saved when 
> you exited the application, but he didn't quite realize that you also 
> had to hit the "save" button, and so he lost his story and a couple 
> other kids' stories as well.  Avoiding these sorts of misconceptions 

LyX does this good.  It makes rescue-savings reasonably often, and
asks the user if the unsaved texts should be saved when quitting.


>> Now, this isn't all reasons to use computers, is it? No! There are
>> a lot more coming, and using computers once in a while from the
>> very start will make the rest of it easier.
> 
> Hmm... maybe this is an important aspect to emphasize more.  
> How can you fit computers into a curriculum without making them 
> a big deal?

Yes, it's a big thing.  I don't think you shall use computers several
hours every day in a school with 6-8-years old kids.. Having a few
tools as an alternative for some of the writing on paper or so..


> The really big thing that is missing from this is stuff about *what* 
> the children should be writing.  How to help them get ideas, or write 
> out of their experiences, use their imagination, or whatever.  I think 
> this is one of the most important and difficult aspects of teaching 
> writing.

I think of this document as an addition to the normal course
litterature for the teachers.  It shouldn't be a complete methodology
of teaching writing in itself, just how you can use computers
sometimes instead of text-books, papers etc.  A complete curriculum
is a larger thing than I would think myself competent of.  Maybe 2040
or so :-)


> Okay, well now I've unconvinced myself that this is a good thing to 
> tackle in this document.  I dunno... a few thoughts anyway.

Thank's, it's good with someone making me think of what I am actually
writing, not just what I think I wrote :)


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