Re: Squeak as HyperCard

["Ian Bicking" <bickiia@earlham.edu>]

> Another program going in this direction seems to be Boxer
> <http://soe.berkeley.edu/boxer/>.  In fact, there is a long and
> interesting discussion on the topic of Boxer and HyperCard in the boxer
> mailing list archive.  

Could you give a link to the mailing list archive?  I couldn't find it on 
their website.

[...]
> That brings me to another thing I wanted to suggest.  We already have
> several languages that can be called "educational" on our list. There is
> logo, scheme, isetl, we can add squeak.  Maybe we can create a separate
> list with languages and programming environments that have something to
> do with education and are available for linux.  Something where a
> teacher who wants to teach a programming class could go and read about
> the languages, download them and try them, and decide which one is the
> best for their purpose.  

Would the teacher come into it knowing what language they want 
to teach, then decide on the implementation, or would they actually 
decide on the language?  I'd assume most teachers would know a 
language and/or have a particular textbook/curriculum they expect 
to go through.

Comparitive descriptions of language implementations could be 
useful in this context, though language comparisons might not be.  


I'm now wondering what level education seul-edu is aimed at.  Any 
educational setting, or does it exclude college from its goals.  In 
terms of CS at the college level, I don't see any particular benefit 
seul-edu would provide.  Public labs at colleges are probably fairly 
similar to any public lab, though... and all the other computer use 
at colleges seems very ad hoc.  Maybe at community colleges... 
they seem to put more thought into the over-all curriculum, which 
would include computer use.  Anyway, does seul-edu target all 
levels?

If it doesn't, then the language list would be much smaller, I'd 
imagine.  Do people actually teach Scheme to high school 
students?  I suppose they must, now that I think about it, because 
I've seen Scheme and ML code coming out of competitions that 
include high schools.  Huh... I guess at a school for the gifted...?

As I think about it, Prolog could be a neat language to use in a 
math class... not even necessarily a really advanced math class.  
As an experiment in deductive logic, sets, etc.  Does anyone know 
of anyone trying this?


The earliest use of Squeak I've heard of so far is in introductory 
programming courses in college.  It has a lot of potential, but I don't 
know if it's ready to be taught at lower levels yet, except perhaps 
by someone who knows it well, in which case we don't need to tell 
the teacher anyway.  [I think Visual Works (another Smalltalk) is 
also available for Linux, free for educational use... but I don't know if 
that really means anything]


Basic should definately be included on the list.  Though no one 
may actually want to stand behind it as a language, it does have a 
history in education and there are several implementations for 
Linux.

Advanced Placement Programming is, I think, C-based.  (In the US 
AP classes are [theoretically] college-level classes, usually 
directed toward passing the necessary AP test, such that the tests 
direct the curriculum)  Gcc would obviously be the choice here, but 
at least some coverage of developement tools would be in order 
(gdb, emacs, jed (or is it joe?) as another editor, etc).

Pascal is another classic language.  Again, I'd assume gcc, but I 
think there is another compiler out there (emulating Turbo Pascal?) 
and a Pascal->C translator.  Then add Modula-2 and Oberon, to 
give the complete Wirthian set of languages.  Oberon, particularly, 
seems to be directed toward education.

I'd expect people are teaching Java as well, with all the hype.  Is 
there any implementation other than the standard Java SDK?

To list those all in the same place:

Mathematical:
  Logo
  Scheme (Prolog, ML, or Haskel?  No... that's probably out of        
   hand)
  ISETL

Compiled:
  C (C++ too, I guess...?)
  Pascal
  Modula-2
  Oberon

Others:
  Java
  Basic
  Squeak/Smalltalk



I could write up something on Logo (which at the moment is 
synominous with UCBLogo... well, plus maybe Turtle Tracks), 
Scheme (I've tried most of the implementations at one time or 
another), and Squeak.

I used Oberon before too, but I hated it with a passion so I probably 
couldn't give a fair review :-P


Then there's potential directions in languages, like Boxer and 
ToonTalk, which deserve pointers from seul-edu even if they can't 
be run on Linux.



--
Ian Bicking <bickiia@earlham.edu>