[seul-edu] Re: advotg: Moving away from proprietary (was Re: (Offtopic?) Filemaker Pro on Linux server Problem)

[Mark Dalton <mwd@sgi.com>]

Bill which databases are you running?
  > > This seems to be happening more and more to me.  I am
  > > finding it hard to move away from proprietary software,
  > > because they seem to push a closed solution.  Our
  > > accounting database, our main academic database has this
  > > problem, now our admissions database, and our school
  > > librarian has decided to go with a proprietary system so
  > > that they will enter all the records for a certain sum
  > > of money and I am certainly not going to do this.  

Most data bases can output in multiple formats (specifically using
deliminated fields), then it is just duplicating the fields (of course
you have to be able to find those fields).  Perhaps someone has a better
suggestion on getting the fields dumped out also, but it will depend on
the database (and i am no expert on databases)

I agree there is a problem/concern.  Fortunately my company is already
a unix company (mostly) there are only a few managers and secretaries
(the non-tech folks) that use windows or macs.  But they are willing to
consider options, especially when it saves money.  Linux is really a strong 
consideration for the desktop future (on the Cray side) since I can get all
the needed components avaialble:
	- programming
	- Office Suite (StarOffice is my current favorite)
	- voice mail, VOIP, are available but I need to test these.
	- video/video conferencing
	- graphics
	- stable quality OS

   Also this should save a lot of money plus enable developers to actually
   do programming on their desktop.  (of course we currently use SGIs for
   workstations).

As for non-tech places, I am converting the local wildlife/wolf center to
Linux in addition to their Macs.  I have already demo'ed the power of a
Linux box to them, and built a machine.  I have been able to convert their
Windows Word, graphics, etc. and Mac Word, graphics, etc. to Linux.  Even
though they could not get their various documents to work between machines.

They also have Filemaker Pro, and this is still a outstanding issue and
a reason to keep the Macs for now.  However, future applications at least
on the wolf research side will be on Linux:
	- microscope interface
	- Video conferencing 
	- Monitoring of the wolves/video capture (Hauppauge WinTV)
	- Spreadsheets (StarOffice)
	- Document writeups, printing (StarOffice)

Software products I keep hearing of that are missing for people in general are:
	- Wine - Applications need to be easy to install in Wine, and easier to
	   configure (brain-dead level, automagic)
	- Filemaker Pro
	- MS Project (there is not conversion software, but there is a project
		      to replace the functionality)
	- Quicken (accounting and Tax) - runs under wine (supposedly)
	- AutoCAD - just because it is popular (ProE is also used in the high-end
		    on Unix)

Any database that can output in standard formats (deliminated by ':',',',tab,etc)
can be input into any standard database.  I am not sure if Filemaker Pro can
output in standard formats.  Even if it can, they need the same functionality
which I have not seen yet in a linux tool.

But for students, they need to use what the industry (job market) is using for
their _area_of_interest_.  (Think of the students future, and I think this case
can be used to influence the schools).
	- Business applications - (desktop - Windows, larger accounting - Unix)
		* varies depending on level of business and needs
		* SAP is on linux
	- Science research with programming - Unix
		* researchers that need to do complex computer models
	- Science research (publications) - any platform
		* researchers that just use computers as a means of 
		  writing grants, communication, and access to information.
	- IS/IT - ?? mixed I would guess, I live in a sheltered world of unix.
	- CAD - Windows or Unix (depending on complexity of needs and speed)

So we do really need to work on the non-technical Business applications, 

I think one of the main things is it takes time for places to build up a 
comfort level, and to believe it will be around.  There is potential before
they move to Windows 2000, to at least give linux a honest evaluation.

My general strategy is to be honest, let them know we do not have all
the same software yet and the reason why.  The I explain how it can be
done to be more portable, which would enable them to have a choise of 
which machines/OS's to run or even run multiple OS's so that students
can see there are choices and the pros/cons of each.

Mark
> 
> I'm forwarding this to seul-edu and advotg because I think the question
> needs wider discussion than just the docutg group.
> 
> Bill Tihen -- TECHNOLOGY wrote:
> > 
> > Linux is only the file server.  It has nothing else (at
> > this point anyway to do with the files).
> > 
> > I think what I will do is take a nearly retired Mac and
> > use it as a Filemaker Pro server, but still keep the
> > files on the Fileserver.
> > 
> > <complaint-suggestion>
> > This seems to be happening more and more to me.  I am
> > finding it hard to move away from proprietary software,
> > because they seem to push a closed solution.  Our
> > accounting database, our main academic database has this
> > problem, now our admissions database, and our school
> > librarian has decided to go with a proprietary system so
> > that they will enter all the records for a certain sum
> > of money and I am certainly not going to do this.  Even
> > moving away from our word processor has big challenges.
> > Do we have a general stragegy for dealing with this?  I
> > am not finding it practical to replace all the existing
> > stuff.  Is it possible to work on allowing the
> > proprietary stuff to work with Linux as if it were a Mac
> > or Windows Client?
> > </complaint-suggestion>
> > 
> Well, if you're talking about emulators there's Executor and Basilisk
> for Macs, and of course WINE for Windows.  VMware will allow you to run
> actual Windows over Linux at a performance hit.
> 
> > Quoting Doug Loss <dloss@suscom.net>:
> > > Is this a version of Filemaker Pro that runs on Linux,
> > or is the Linux
> > > box being used as a Samba, NFS, or netatalk file
> > server only?  I
> > > couldn't find any mention of Filemaker Pro for Linux
> > on a quick search.
> > > If the Linux box is just a file server, then it's
> > probably an issue of
> > > the Windows or Mac Filemaker program locking the file
> > when it opens it.
> > > If the actual database code runs on the Linux box,
> > that's a different
> > > story.
> 
> -- 
> Doug Loss                 The difference between the right word and
> Data Network Coordinator  the almost right word is the difference
> Bloomsburg University     between lightning and a lightning bug.
> dloss@bloomu.edu                Mark Twain
> 


-- 
Mark Dalton       CH3-S-CH2 H                      H      O       H
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