Re: The Distribution

[Erik Walthinsen <omega@omegacs.net>]

> > Because it already exists.  We can START by adopting it and improve it as
> So does LST and a number of others, it seems to me that you want SEUL to
> do the work for Debians benifit.
That is *exactly* the point.  SEUL has (I hope) a better handle on what 
will soon be the dominant Linux user: the end-user.  As such, SEUL should 
concentrate on the interface elements.  That is not always possible, of 
course, as we are also working on the Core.

The entire point of Free software is to give back to the community.  If we 
do a decent installer, based on Debian, Debian will use it, we'll use it, 
others will use it.  In return we get fixes and suggestions from them, and 
we also get to start from their distribution.  I think that's fair.

> What's my beef, well really it comes in two parts.  If debian is so good,
> then whythere a need for SEUL??  If Seul takes on the programs of the past
> then it also takes on the misconceptions of those programs.  We have a
> chance to start fresh here, why limit ourselves???
Debian exists currently as primarily a server/developer/hacker system.  
SEUL must exist in order to provide those elements of a system that are 
required in order for an average end-user to use the system.  This is all 
outlined in the FAQ.

> Linux announce newsgroup every day and have yet to see any, for me anyway,
> original programs let alone the KILLER APP.
This is also one of SEUL's goals (as far as I'm concerned).  As our primary 
goal is to get Linux into the hands of the average person, we must have a 
way to do that.  A Killer App is the only decent way to do that, given M$'s 
marketing machine.  Please, if you have an idea for a Killer App, or you 
see something out there that could develop into a Killer App, post it to 
seul-dev-apps.  Complaining won't do any good, whereas suggestions do a 
world of good.

> But when you are attempting something new, relying on the old in many cases
> while it gets the job done, is not the best solution.  So what you end up
> with is a mish-mash of old ways of thinking with new ways appended on.
I never said we'd stick with Debian or whatever all the way.  But the 
entire point is to give these changes and enhancements back to the 
community.  That is why we will be working closely with Debian, GNOME, 
etc., to provide these enhancements without creating the SEUL version of 
out there.  We don't have enough people (and never will) to make
SEUL-only enhancements to everything.  We must cooperate with existing
projects to get anywhere.

> How your horses, there buckroo.  Take a look at your basic system.  A
> processor(in this case an X86 chip), a video card (mostly SVGA), a hard
> drive (EIDE), memory, and a monitor (mostly multisync)  what's so
> difficult????  Remember this is for a first time user whose computer
> comes from a factory, no modifications.
Any your point?  George is talking about an *install* floppy, with just 
enough room for a severely hacked X server.  ONE X server.  As the goal is 
to install Linux on any machine capable of running it, that means we 
include the VGA16 server.  That will run on every machine that X can run on 
(except CGA/MGA, which may have to be a special case, and IMO only if 
someone really wants to do it).  If you want to find a way to include all 
the code necessary to do all the cards, all the modes, etc., in your ~300K 
quota (wild guess), then go for it.  I won't stop you, heck, I'll help you 
out.  Just prove it's possible first.

>  True but unless things have changed, SEUL is not aimed at the millions
> of PC's outthere.  The target audience is, if memory serves the user that
> is currently running windows95
The millions of PC out there are running W95.  That means that those 
millions of machines are our target.


>  And in those three days none other than yourself has said I can't
> continue UNTIL the nextversion of debian comes out.  And we know who your
> associations are with.
EXCUSE ME???  Fatal parser error.  What does waiting for the next stable 
boot disks have to do with "associations"?  While I do not condone anyone
here suggesting that anyone else is a troll (i.e. M$ employee), I most
certainly don't like it when things get "personal" with *zero* basis.

Please keep things professional, else this project will *fail*.  If you 
question the motives of someone, ask them *privately* and *cordially*.  Do 
not post to a list.

>  Hummm I was never asked about this, neither was at least one other
> person thatI have had contact with.  For all intents and purposes you
> are attempting to push Debian down the throats of everyone on the SEUL
> list.
Please read the archives.  You will find that for the most part, the choice 
of Debian since I talked to Bruce has been expressed not as fact, but as a 
possibility.  I then posted a message in which I explained why I though our 
best bet was to go with Debian, and I asked for good reasons why we 
shouldn't.  I have heard no good, substantial reasons yet, and none from you
that I remember.  If you don't like using Debian, please post your reasons.
Otherwise I can't help you.

One of my *many* live projects it to write detailed documents describing 
several things, including our proposed relationship with Debian, why we 
should thus be based on Debian, the "Core" idea, etc.  I must have time to 
do this, however, and at this point I'm not having much luck.

     Erik Walthinsen <omega@seul.org> - SEUL Project system architect
        __
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      |    | M E G A            Creating a Linux distribution
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