Re: console vs X (was Re: SDL vs GGI)

[Cubesoft <cubesoft@yahoo.com>]

--- Steve Baker <sjbaker1@airmail.net> wrote:
> Yes - I agree in principle - but in this case, I'm completely at a loss
> to see any measurable advantage to using the dumb console at all.

I find vi fast and simple in console.  I get to my stuff quickly with its features, but I don't
like vi support in X much.  Also I have tried IDEs like Code Cruasder, and find that I much perfer
vi's funtionality.  The reason I still use X to test programs is better contrtol over my
enviroment.  I test my programs, and then if it crashes, I can just do a quick xkill.  When I have
used svgalib2d, I have not been able to switch out of the program, or it messes up fonts and
colors in another virtual terminal

My programming enviroment is 5 vts and X.  I have 1 devoted to compile, another for the main code,
another for main header file, 2 for docs/other code, and then X to test.

I find Click'n'Paste much nicer for my programming.  I am much more effiecent in colsole then X. 
I still use X, but I use console as much as possible
 
> People seem to have some nebulous idea that X consumes excessive amounts
> of "resources" without being able to tell me what they mean by that word
> (RAM, Disk, CPU, power supply voltage - what?)...and then you see a wild
> claim that 20% of these mythical "resources" are consumed...still no
> indication
> of what that resource actually is.

I have I think 9% CPU used by X, and ~15% memory.  When I run my program, it takes up 85%, and X
takes up 15% CPU.  I am not sure how this compres to conole though.  I should run a Crystal Space
perf test on console, and on X.
 
> Then claims of unreliability so extreme as to make it unusable - which
> clashes
> with the experience of people who actually do use it and find it 100%
> reliable
> (once installed).

Yes, reliability is part of why i debug.  Also unlike the unpredicibility of svgalib, X does oin;y
what I say.

> When I ask WHY the console is preferable, I get assertions that the font
> is
> nicer (silly! there are HUNDREDS of X fonts out there - I can't believe
> that
> none of them are better than the one font that happens to come in your
> video
> card)...people tell me that they reserve the right to use the console
> (fair
> enough) or that it's easier to program (so is a programmable calculator
> - but
> I still wouldn't write video games on one)!

Well, Its not font for me.

> case, I can't see ANY advantages to the console approach!  Well, I
> probably won't - so maybe I should just stop trying to understand

Programs can take up to much space on a 14 inch moniter.  Maybe some don't want that  5% CPU used.
 Also I find I can jump much quicker around, and do more stuff in Console.  Xterms can just get
anoying with some not supporting different keys, or alwyas when started don't do stuff I want like
have my profile read to do ls colors(I know there is another way besides this alias I have, but I
always forget to).  

> > The only times I ahve had an improer shutdown is from X also.  I have not succesfully gotten
> the
> > StarOffice to install.  I have narrowed it down to If itm gains focus, Bye Bye machine.
> 
> Hmmm - it was auto-installed by SuSE on my machine - no problems there.

I am a Debian person.
  
> > Other stuff has crashed X.  Sometimes I haven;t even been able to load it.  Sometimes I have
> had
> > font server problems, or problems with it using the incorrect video server.  Also, Somehow a
> lib
> > needed by WindowMaker got corrupted, I think.  So it couldn't load, so I had to install
> BlackBox
> > to do anything until, which helped me narrow it down to a bad package.
> 
> Huh!  That's *so* odd. I install packages at a rate of about one a *day*
> and I don't recall any taking out X...lot's of them plain don't work -
> but
> that's another story.

Well, WindowMaker was higly depnedant on tis package.  Also, I didb't have any other Window
Managers installed.

The way Debain has packaging setup, I rarely have packages that don't work.  Siome how it just got
corrupted I guess

> > Also
> > CPU: 133
> > RAM: 48
> > hard Drive: 1 Gb, 8 Gb
> > Video:  S3 Virge DX
> 
> Ugh!  S3 Virge is a truly terrible piece of junk!
> Carmack describes it as a 3D decelerator because it runs
> Quake slower than software alone!

We got it for free.  When we get AGP, unless we have a better card at the time, we will use a S3
Viegre GX, which we also have for free.

> Still - it doesn't sound like that could be the cause of you
> grief. I used to run X on my 32Mib RAM, 100MHz 486 - it worked
> OK.


It does, but some things can not be done more effecianlty in X yet.  I would actually use
Enlightenment(Resource Hog) if it wasn''t for the the fact that the version that came with a
distribution is too old, and last time I tried to load in new packages, It was kind of flakely(not
MS Window Flakely, but flaky)  Part of the problem is my distrib is based off of glibc 2.0.---,
and the new ones are using glibc 2.1.  This nad Enlightenemnt has a lot of dependency's is why I
wont upgrade to it.  So it is not really a resource problem at all.

Also people mention prices of hardware, maybe it is not within the budget to upgrade.  Good thing
soon we will be getting a new computer.  Unfortunetly My parents are getting either a  Compaq
presario AMD K6-2 400mhz, or a HP Celeron 400mhz.  Any one know pros or cons of either, especially
for dual boot Windows/Linux?
===



Cubesoft development
http://www.linuxsupportline.com/~cubesoft

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