Re: Loki files for banruptcy protection.

[br0ke@math.smsu.edu]

Steve Baker scribbled:

> 
> Mark Collins wrote:
> 

<snip>

> > There is a major flaw in that premise: Linux users have different tastes to
> > Windows users. I'm sure you remember the email I sent out a while back about
> > what games people like to play, I think the results showed a slight trend
> > towards "intelligent" games, not titles such as Deus Ex or UT.
> 
> Yes - I strongly suspect that's the case - but I doubt that any solid
> research has been done about it.  And Rule #1 in any business is "Know your
> market".

maybe we should try to trick some place with a 'user' audience to run polls on
this stuff. Like slashdot.org or linuxgames.com or happypenguin.org? We've polled
this on lgdc, but I don't think that's a fair sample.

> 
> > There was a lot of hype about MindRover in the Linux press, which only adds
> > weight to this theory. Kent Quirk (The original author of MindRover) had a
> > good idea there, and is probably going to make shitloadsa money form the
> > sequal.
> 
> Yep.
>  
> > > So we are back in the usual chicken-and-egg situation:  We need more games
> > > to get more Linux users.  We need more Linux users to get more games.
> > >
> > > The only way to get out of that loop is to write FREE Linux games
> > > ourselves...which is what I do.  The problem is that it can take 100 people
> > 
> > We need *high-quality* free linux games, of which there aren't veyr many.
> > FlightGear, TuxKarts and the like are good, but they're not going to draw Joe
> > 'LeetFrag' Bloggs to Linux gaming.
> 
> Yes - but it's *VERY* hard to get enough OpenSource people together to get
> that to happen.  And the utter non-existance of freeware artists is a
> crushing blow.

I gave up on procuring artists for an open source endeaver and am writing a
closed source free game as a quick test/codebase builder, with the hope of
breaking into the commercial side. The guy who goes out and finds people managed
to find some top notch artists, but there're three big factors that went into
that I think. A) he knew where to look, something I'd have no clue on. B) I have
to support windows every step of the way, so I have milestones that I borrow a
windows 'puter to press out for them to ooh and aah over (a couple have indicated
that they've been involved in unpaid projects before, and they never saw any work
the programmers have done. This makes me think that it's pretty important for an
open source game to provide binary snapshots, as the artists are not programmers
and probly wouldn't know how to cvs or compile). C) this is probly the biggy, but
hopefully the next game will be contracted or self-published, so there's the promise
of money if things take off.

<snip>

> > One of our main concerns about adding Linux support to vectorC iat work is a
> > fear of piracy. While there aren't as many source for Linux-warez, the ration
> > of warez-users:non-warez users is much scarier than on Windows.
> 
> Linux people I've met seem generally MUCH more concerned about the licensing
> legalities and being careful about that...but it's really hard to tell. There
> are so few commercial games out there - we just don't have good statistics
> on the size of the piracy problem.
>  

yeah, I have to agree with steve, we just don't have the numbers to make a claim
like that. I, personally, don't warez. I run almost all open source free stuff, 
and paid for those incredibly rare non-free programs I use. Most of my linux
using friends are the same way, but I can't put any stock in that because it's
a pretty non-scientific study. :) I have more in common with the "good" people,
so I'm more likely to become friends with 'em :)

> > Actually, you're partly right there (And partly wrong). Many Linux users are
> > either a) privacy freaks who won't want the Evil Credit Agencies controlling
> > their lives, or b) have shit credit ratings, and can't get a CC.
> 
> *REALLY*?   You have evidence to back that up?
> 
> I doubt that's true here in the USA - it's almost impossible to live without
> a credit card.

one complaint I've heard several times is that the people who want to buy the game
are too young to have a cc. I can buy that, but money orders and "mom and dads card"
negate the argument :/

> 
> > However, I did a little research into the cost of self-publishing a while
> > back. Assuming you can sell 2,500 units (not hard, all things considered),
> > you can press CDs for at most $1 each (includes packaging).

what does 'packaging' entail? can you throw out some pertinant url's? possibly
make a little howto? My local luc was contemplating cooking up custom giveaway
cd's, so the utility of this info reaches further than just games, might be good
to have some available docs outlining it

   3) Despite the fact that I have zero commercial games experience
>      and little desire to get into commercial games, I had to beat off
>      the game-headhunters with a stick.

damn, I shoulda gone to siigraph :)


> 
> Yes - I think that's a strong possibility - but that "artists fees" thing
> scares me.  What sort of rates do those guys charge?   Where do you find
> contract artists like that?   Do they charge by the hour or the model?
> 

college art students are probly cheap and willing to negotiate. 

        -Erik <erik@smluc.org> [http://math.smsu.edu/~erik]

The opinions expressed by me are not necessarily opinions. In all probability,
they are random rambling, and to be ignored. Failure to ignore may result in
severe boredom or confusion. Shake well before opening. Keep Refrigerated.